simonjrogers: Mutant City Blues Cover

simonjrogers (

simonjrogers) wrote,
@ 2008-05-27 17:09:00

Entry tags:

art, mutant city blues, pelgrane

Mutant City Blues Cover
Cover first draft. Comments welcome.

(Post a new comment)

	mattcaron 2008-05-27 04:09 pm UTC (link)
	It makes me want a copy. Now, that said: It needs something more at the bottom... Like, the text layout seems "top heavy". Perhaps move Robin's name down to the bottom, opposite the Pelgrane logo? Also, the "flying guy"'s head looks disproportionately large for some reason. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	spidercat 2008-05-27 07:00 pm UTC (link)
	As someone who works in a games store, at least for us that's good - we tend to display books in a tiered structure, so about 2/3 of each cover is obscured by the book below. Having the title at the top and clearly visible is good for allowing people to find the books that they're looking for. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	mattcaron 2008-05-27 07:20 pm UTC (link)
	Hmm.. A good point which I had not considered. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	simonjrogers 2008-05-28 08:39 am UTC (link)
	"Flying guy" is supposed to be "flying girl" and you spotted that's the weak figure in the mix. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	sashabilton 2008-05-27 04:12 pm UTC (link)
	I'm just going to love this game and I suspect we will be able to judge it by it's cover. (Reply to this)

	righteousfist 2008-05-27 04:27 pm UTC (link)
	Nice understated effect on the text. (Reply to this)

	jaegamer 2008-05-27 04:35 pm UTC (link)
	Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaant... (Reply to this)

wordwill
2008-05-27 04:59 pm UTC (link)

I like a lot of the composition, with the characters forming an S-shape toward the title, and the simple but well-integrated use of red-vs-green in there. If there's not a good in-setting reason for it, though, I'd make Officer Greenhand's eyes glow green, too, to help accentuate that rivalry. I'm not sure that things are lit right to really sell what's flying and what's not. The body language of the flyer (yes?) in the back isn't enough, and I'm a little unclear if Officer Greenhand is meant to be on the ground or not. This is all highly subjective stuff, though. I'm being rigorous, which is next to pedantry.

The real note is this: The title needs to be more readable. I'm not sure if I'm looking at something with trim space on it, but there's a lot of room above the title where the very same title would be more legible. The design on the title is great—classy, even—but it's current placement makes it look timid. The exposition line is clearer and bolder (not bolder-faced, you understand). It's where my eye went, then to the action, then back to the title. If we're going to worry about rack-visibility, then, I'd do something to accentuate the title.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	drivingblind 2008-05-27 06:27 pm UTC (link)
	I think the glow effect needs a drop shadow behind it, to darken the background so it's higher contrast. As it is, the glow is fading into the highlights and that in turn is bleeding into the text... which is destroying the recognition factor of the letterforms. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

wordwill
2008-05-27 06:36 pm UTC (link)

See, I was trying not to use a lot of jargon that would make me sound like a snob. But then you go and use almost every piece of jargon I deleted from mine, and without sounding like a snob. Dammit.

The more I think about it, the more I think the cover would look rad with design elements supporting the text, rather than just text and layer effects. Full-bleed art is one thing, but I've been leaning a lot more toward novel-style covers lately—something that gives more of a shape to the book. I don't know if I'd do a plate or a wide color field or what, but I'd tinker around with something beyond just the art to define shape of the cover.

Everything I sketched on this 3x5 card, here, looks like a 1950s crime novel, though, which isn't quite MCB is after.

With the art having its own competing directions of movement, though, I wonder if centering the title work is the right thing to do. Use the foreground pylon for negative space and put the title to the left, exaggerating the S-shape, maybe?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

drivingblind
2008-05-27 07:02 pm UTC (link)

I wonder if some asymmetry would help, moving the title over to the right and giving it more verticality, making it a destination for the 'S' more deliberately.

Like this:

(That's a hasty rendering, mind you. More text needs to be there, and the killer lightweight font would need to be preserved, but better supported by shadow, etc.)

Edited at 2008-05-27 07:04 pm UTC

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	heliograph 2008-05-27 07:38 pm UTC (link)
	That really reminds me of Shadowrun for some reason. Also, retailers really want the title at the top (see one of the commentators above). (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	drivingblind 2008-05-27 07:40 pm UTC (link)
	Yes... that's why it's at the top. Just over to one side. :) (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	heliograph 2008-05-27 08:00 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah yeah! I get you. But if they're only showing the top third or quarter of the book, you're looking at "Mutant City." Also not bad, though ;-) The placement and color are haunting me: It seems that it is very similar to an existing RPG product, but I can't put my finger on it. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	wordwill 2008-05-27 08:23 pm UTC (link)
	The color scheme and right-heavy text (plus that dark, narrow band) just barely evokes the World of Darkness "blue books," which are themselves evoked by a couple of Shadowrun supplements. Could that be it? (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	drivingblind 2008-05-28 04:17 pm UTC (link)
	Delta Green has a "text right, image image left" design going for it too, yes? Edited at 2008-05-28 04:17 pm UTC (Reply to this) (Parent)

wordwill
2008-05-27 08:43 pm UTC (link)

I agree with your call for asymmetry, but not your choice of type design. I like how yours makes everything point at the villain in the corner, but I prefer the classy and simple way the original text treatment played wide and cinematic, just high and to the left, forming an "S" with the comp rather than a "C". Going towards that cinematic style, I'd say the cover shouldn't be afraid to be higher contrast, sinking the blacks blacker and blowing out some highlights, to create a shot-at-night-on-DV feeling that makes the superpowers really feel powered and gives the title plenty of darkness to stand out against.

I actually tend to prefer design-heavy rather than illo-heavy covers for RPG cores, but Jerome's work turned me around on both Esoterrorists and Trail of Cthulhu already. In both those cases, I think the way the text plays with the illustration is vital. Much to my surprise, this composition actually works better with the title across the top, I think, with each word given equal weight, so that it becomes like blank verse, you know?

A strong single-character mood shot could sell this game, too, but I'm assuming we shouldn't be reinventing the cover here.

I wonder if Officer Greenhand and the villain should both have smoky-looking effects or not. It implies they have something in common, like different uses of the same Force (sic). But now I'm getting into Kirby territory, wherein dudes' powers have to have different shapes and halftone patterns just so you can pick them out of the background.

Again, me = pedant, too often.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

drivingblind
2008-05-27 09:31 pm UTC (link)

Yeah. I just wanted to get an idea out there to see how it works. One of the big faults of my version is that the blown up car doesn't get nearly enough play. :)

But I feel like the text needs a little inequality with its parts that it currently lacks. Aside from the shadow/contrast issues, the title itself is fine, but all the little bits around it seem too undifferentiated (something others have been commenting on).

And I'm definitely wandering around some similar headspace regarding the image itself. But like you, I don't know if reinvention is in order.

I feel like we need just a little more excitement on the cover -- but on the other hand, this is an *investigative* game that supports action, not the other way around, so I don't know if dialing up the volume would be... misrepresentative.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	simonjrogers 2008-05-28 08:42 am UTC (link)
	Yes, the shadows and blur lines need to be added to bring the figures into the picture. I like the across title placement, although I will experiment with moving it around the place as you and Fred suggest. Just poking over the top of the books below works well for me. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	gbsteve 2008-05-27 05:07 pm UTC (link)
	I think overall that it is pretty damn good but I do have a few reservations. I like the title but think that the background immediately behind it could be darker. Also none of the cops seem particularly anchored to the ground. Perhaps a bit heavier on the shadow of those who aren't flying would solve this. Otherwise, nice one. (Reply to this)

	cheetahmaster 2008-05-27 05:14 pm UTC (link)
	Very keen! Definitely makes me want to pick it up. (Reply to this)

A Few Pointers

mythusmage
2008-05-27 05:55 pm UTC (link)

The title's too busy. Here is how I would lay it out.

Title: Mutant City Blues
Sub-title: An RPG of Emerging Superpowers

Then the art and then...

A Gumshoe System RPG by
Robin D. Laws

As for the art. Not what I'd call evocative. It's busy for one thing, entirely too much going on. You just need to give people a feel for the product. Focus on a subject. Say a young woman on an empty street, stopping a thrown knife cold with her bare hand, the point of the knife curling and splitting as it hits her palm.

An idea, nothing more. The goal is to get their attention, keep it, and invite them to look inside. As it is, the cover is confusing, says too much, and isn't intriguing enough to invite a look inside. The cover is advertisement for the book, and when you've got maybe 7 seconds to make your pitch you want to keep the ad basic. The title, the feel, the author. Stick to that and you should do a lot better.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	Re: A Few Pointers (Anonymous) 2008-05-27 06:38 pm UTC (link)
	This sounds like you're recommending something like the SCION covers, yeah? (Reply to this) (Parent)

	Re: A Few Pointers drivingblind 2008-05-27 07:54 pm UTC (link)
	I dig the art fine, but I'm nodding to your recommendations about text placement. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	Re: A Few Pointers simonjrogers 2008-05-28 08:43 am UTC (link)
	We'll muck around with the subtitles/author name. (Reply to this) (Parent)

viktor_haag
2008-05-27 05:57 pm UTC (link)

Can you make the Pelgrane Press logo also in white, to mirror the rest of the text on the cover? I'm not fond of the "wolverine" claws, but I can understand why the artist used them: the question of "what to do instead" is problematic -- maybe you could turn him into a speedster and have exaggerated contrails behind him?

Also, how about making at least one of the figures on the cover a female? Without the typical "big-boob" proportions? Maybe the cop figure in the foreground with the magnetic powers? (I'm thinking of a Renee Montoya-like character...)

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	simonjrogers 2008-05-28 08:44 am UTC (link)
	The flying person was supposed to be a svelt woman. That's not clear, though. (Reply to this) (Parent)

princeofcairo
2008-05-27 06:36 pm UTC (link)

Love the font! I agree that it needs to be against a darker backdrop; whether that means moving it up an inch or so, or changing the street lights to that hazy mercury-yellow color (though that could screw with your cool blue palette, which is undesirable) is up to you guys.

Nobody seems to be casting any shadows (and neither are the oil drums) fixing this could fix the "is he flying?" guy in the b.g.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	simonjrogers 2008-05-28 08:44 am UTC (link)
	Yes, we'll fix these up. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	frabjousdave 2008-05-27 07:14 pm UTC (link)
	Put me in the "higher and stronger" camp. Also, if I knew nothing about a product but saw Robin's name (high and strong) on the cover, I'd at least pick it up and open it, and then probably buy it. (Reply to this)

	heliograph 2008-05-27 07:48 pm UTC (link)
	Why not make Robin's name bigger? Other than that, I disagree with what most of the other posters have said. I get why the Pelgrane Press logo is yellow and why the title is placed the way it is. You're golden as is... except that you should make Robin's name bigger ;-) (Reply to this)

(Anonymous)
2008-05-27 08:10 pm UTC (link)

my goodness people, you all have a very accurate sens of details.
I sent this image to Simon knowing it was not finish and you all picked up every wrong details or missing features.

- I had not done any cast shadow, just because I needed to have simon point of view before going further and because I wanted to work on other pics as this one took me already lot of time

_ the letters need a darker background. I was wondering about that. Now I know, thanks !

_ the green eye instead of red ! was wondering about that one too and I do beleve it is needed

_ the flying woman (it is a woman !!!) isn't right yet,

so again thanks guys ! that confirms my questionning !

<<<<<<< jerome >>>>>>>>>>

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	wordwill 2008-05-27 08:46 pm UTC (link)
	You've got me very excited to see the final work, Jerome! You set a high bar for yourself with the last two games, already. Don't get discouraged by us. :) (Reply to this) (Parent)

jdurall
2008-05-27 08:19 pm UTC (link)

Call me a dissenter, but I'm no fan of the existing piece of work. It's too murky, too dark, and the action seems fairly static. As for the title text, it's too faint. I'd put the tag line below it as well.

I love the covers of Esoterrorists and Trail of Cthulhu, and think this game should have something similarly striking and iconic.

One thing leaps to my mind is a shot of a the right half of a police car from the front, cropped so only half the car is visible. It's raining and dark. The police lights are on, with bright splashes of red and blue light. A police officer is getting out of the car and is half-visible from behind the door and through the window. Something's different about him. Maybe his eyes are glowing or he has gleaming skin, something unusual.

It would also form a nice trilogy with the previous two games, both of which feature protagonists moving into a crime/horror scene, with plenty of tension built despite not seeing an obvious adversary.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	simonjrogers 2008-05-28 08:47 am UTC (link)
	I do like your art idea, and we might even do something similar on a supplement, but MCB is supposed to have a very different look to Esoterrorists and Fear Itself - we want to do more than just hint at superpowered action. It's an understated image for a supers game, but it can't be too understated. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	timgray 2008-05-27 09:19 pm UTC (link)
	It's OK. But I find it visually reminiscent of Palladium products. That should be easily fixed by breaking the patterns a bit - eg Fred's side text would do it. The font for the title is almost trying to suggest "gleaming city of the future" (but only gets as far as being modern in an indeterminate way), whereas the image is saying "murky dystopia, tights verboten". (Reply to this) (Thread)

	Way too Palladium rcade [typekey.com] 2008-05-27 09:47 pm UTC (link)
	I was about to make the same comparison. Sorry to be blunt, but I thought this looked like a Palladium cover -- the typefaces are bland, the art's not impressive enough to rate a second glance, and there's no design elements of any kind to draw the eye. It's far below the Esoterrorist product covers so far. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	simonjrogers 2008-05-28 08:49 am UTC (link)
	"Modern in an indeterminate way" and "tights verboten" is exactly what we are after. I'm not familiar with Palladium stuff, and I'll wonder over and take a look. (Reply to this) (Parent)

hybridartifacts
2008-05-28 08:29 am UTC (link)

These things are always horribly subjective, plus perhaps there can be a tendency for replies to be largely positive regardless, especially as people often don't want to express negative opinions.

Two thoughts - first off is I wonder if throwing a draft image out for a general critique might be prone to muddying the process of review with a mass of opinions (having myself experienced this happening with work). Design by committee can be a problem sometimes. Secondly, sometimes less is more. The design just isn't striking to me. It feels very lifeless and lacks the sort of dynamism appropriate to the product. I do like the colour scheme and the architectural elements at the back though, and the general idea seems good - it just needs punch!

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	simonjrogers 2008-05-28 08:54 am UTC (link)
	We've thrown art out there for comment since GUMSHOE began, and I've found the feedback very useful - the commentators really know what they are talking about, even if they disagree. It's not design by committee, though - we make our own decisions. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	hybridartifacts 2008-05-28 03:37 pm UTC (link)
	Thats great - when using feedback works its certainly a plus. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	neilf 2008-05-28 01:15 pm UTC (link)
	My only observation over and above what has already been said is that the game gives the feeling that the player characters are detectives and the cover art portrays more beat cops. I imagine more Law and Order than Hill Street Blues. Of course, my reading of the game could be completely flawed. - Neil. (Reply to this)

	kruku 2008-05-28 04:58 pm UTC (link)
	Good image. I was al ittle concerned that the chracters might be portrayed as souper-heroes. (Reply to this)

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